Passion Business Podcast – Episode 37: Dov Gordon – Under the Radar Leader

Episode Dov Gordon

Anke:    Welcome to the passion business podcast, the podcast for free spirits, with a big idea who wants to turn their passion into a business. I'm uncle Herman. And I'm your host. They have millions of consultants and coaches who have really good at what they do, but they're not the charismatic guru types.

And they don't want to be. They love the work and all they want is a consistent flow of great clients. Clients who value their expertise. Who value, who they are as people and pay them well for it. My guest today. Helps them achieve just that. Welcome. Dove gordon

hello and welcome Dov. How are you today? 

Dov: thanks for having me.

Anke: Well, thanks for coming. And let's just dive straight in, share with people where you're based and what's your business. What do you do?

Dov: So, I'm originally from New York, a little city on the East coast, United States. It's called Brooklyn, New York.

And, currently I live in Israel. So, which is, probably about the, all about the same size as New York city, maybe even fewer people. And, let's see. I mean, I came here to study in 1898 for six months. Ended up staying a couple of years. Got married here and I've been here since then, of course, with some trips to visit.

And, but most of, most of my businesses outside of the country, I spent a number of years running around here, building up something of a client base. I had a CEO, a peer advisory group for awhile with CEOs of companies doing between 10 and 150, $200 million in sales. But at some point I realized that, having not really grown up here and not being really, you know, you can go through the army.

I'd always be to some degree, an outsider at least. I mean, I didn't know that that was the, and that plus the fact that I came to realize that there are a lot of people who, like, I was good at what they do. Good consultants, experts struggled to turn that into a consistent flow of clients. And I realized that I felt like that was my calling.

So after I'd spent number of years struggling and I started to figure things out, I did figure things out. and there's always more to figure out. So, I mean to say I figured it all out, but, but I figured out a lot more than most people, who are not the charismatic guru celebrity type, but have a lot to offer and are looking to get ideal clients.

And I shifted my focus overseas to, to human, to reach other consultants, coaches, small business owners, small firm owners, and help them create a consistent flow of ideal clients. And that's what I'm doing today.

Anke: Oh, fabulous. So I'm of course curious whether you knew right from the beginning that consulting and helping other people in that way.

Like, do you know right from the beginning or how did you, how does, how did this kind of work find

Dov: you.  I, I wouldn't say right from the beginning of though, since age 13, I discovered the business and self-help sections of the library block away. I've been reading business books and marketing, public relations management, all different tags, self help, personal development.

I think the first book that I discovered was million dollar habits by Robert J ringer. I think it's J Robert ringer. That's for sure. So. That was quite a book. And, over the years read quite a number of different things. And then at about age 21, 22, I was married and figuring out, okay, what am I going to do?

Now? I, I came across the idea of business coaching, right? Took a course to get some basic skills. you know, and, and, I don't think I even got the certification. I didn't bother because I didn't really think that. That was when it was chaotic was key for me. I always knew that I could help. I lacked framework.

I lacked set of skills. I lacked the pathway and that course gave me, well, let's say gave me a start. It pointed me in a certain direction. It gave me a start, gave me a first few tools in my toolbox. And over the years, Just refined, added to the toolbox, got a bigger toolbox. Right? Got more tools in the toolbox.

Lots of experience. lots of, lots of successes, lots of failures, frustration, disappointment, but it all heading in a certain direction. And that's, I think that overall. one thing I seem to be good at is struggle going through something until I can really understand that the kind of understand at a deep level and then explain it, help other people see it in a more simple way so that they can avoid some of the frustration.

And you know, this, we can never turn anywhere. Else's life into a, a, a, you know, a, a fantasy, you know, perfect life. We can't take the, everybody's going to have to. Walk their path, have their pain, learn their lessons. And of course we can't do that for anybody else, but I also think that it's our job to, to learn from our own journeys and, and use what we can to make it a little bit easier, a little bit quicker.

I look a little bit more elegant and enjoyable for other people. Yeah.

Anke: All I, I could not agree with more with that. both parts, the parts that, you know, you can't. Save people from making their own experiences, but also that it is like a calling or an almost an obligation to, to pass on what we've learned so that other people can make other mistakes.

But don't have to repeat the same ones that we've already gone through. Now, what I'm really curious about.

I'm just imagining you, they had like 21 years old, you know? Hello. Yeah. I'm a business coach. How did you convince somebody that you can help them build their business when you come? They're like at 21 years old, you know, everybody would say, what do you know about business? What experience do you have?

How did you pull that one off?

Dov: Oh, that's a good question. And part, part of the answer is that, you know, you're always ahead of somebody, you know, there's always, there's nobody who has it all figured out. So the question is, who can I help? You know, what skills do I have? What is a problem that I can help somebody solve?

What is a result that I can help somebody enable work and enable for somebody. And that's where you start. So it's not about, you know, it's not about, Oh, I have to put in all these decades of time until I I've mastered everything. There is no such person. And honestly, that actually held me back for many years is, you know, looking around and seeing all these people who kind of struck around as if they figured it all out.

They've got it all figured out. It took me many years, including getting to know many such and such people to know that. Actually, none of them have it figured out, not one. Now they have pieces of it figured out. And that's the thing is that we can all take the pieces that we've figured out and find others who are looking for those pieces.

And that's essentially what I did. And it's still what I do now. I've gotten more pieces than ever, but nobody has all the pieces know we're all going to need to learn from different people. If not, then you'd only ever need one guest. And that gets to be very in demand. Probably not available.

Anke: Yeah, no, very true.

I mean, what, where I'm getting at this is that, because I remember friends who were like, you know, they looked really young. Right. And then, and, but then they ended up having a, sort of a fairly senior position in a company and constantly struggled with that. Not being taken seriously. Right. And sort of being younger than that other people might expect somebody to be for, you know, in a particular role, as one example, you know, somebody else might be older or, or, or in other ways different from what somebody would expect, which you know, where you would expect, it might be more difficult to get that first client, especially when you haven't got it, like a track board or, or a whole list of past clients that, you know, Can help you get the next one.

So was the first person who hired you and how did you find them?

Dov: That's a great question. I don't remember who the first person was, but I do remember how I got my first clients. So I was in Jerusalem at the time. and. The somebody brought it, Dale Carnegie courses to Israel at that time, I think it had been decades before, but it was just brought back and he was putting on this, his first course in the, the famous King David hotel, which was nice and elegant.

after that he moved someplace. It's a lot cheaper, but the first course we had in the nice King David hotel and. That's a, it was a, I think it was a it's a 12 week course, I think four hours a week, once a week, once a Thursday night, I think it was four hours or 41 or 42 people. And what I remember is that by the end of that 14% of the class for my first clients, because every week everybody's getting up and giving a talk and, and you're, you're sharing something about yourself.

You're, you're being vulnerable. And now it works both ways. It's just, it really helps to create and build relationships. I remember, I just remember now, one of the people in that course was a nephrology head of nephrology at a maitre Jerusalem hospital, one of the two or three major ones. And he became a client actually probably for a year or two, maybe longer.

I don't remember, you know, every now and then I hear from him since then, he'd say I still use what, what, what you taught me to do. And so on. And. No, that's, that's fantastic actually, because here's a guy, you know, obviously a doctor, more degrees than I have. you know, I've been around in the world running a, an important department and an important hospital.

And there are things that we did years before that he still uses that he still finds helpful. So, you know, the question I asked myself at that time, it was like, okay, how can I get in front of English, speaking business people. Locally, how can I find that? How can I even know where to look? I didn't even know anything about, like, I didn't even know what a business really was.

Cause I'd never had a real job. It probably would have helped me if I had a real job. you know, if I'd worked for someone else for a few years, well, whatever it didn't happen that way. So you never know what would have been. I can certainly see, I would have better understood certain things. I guess of course, you know, very much will depend on where I worked and for how long, and then what I did, but there are certain things that I probably would have understood much better and maybe learn more quickly.

On the other hand, you know, I, I, you know, I tend to see things a little bit differently than many people do, and I, I would like to think that's an advantage. Hmm. I dunno, maybe that would have been hammered out of me to some degree if, if I had had a real job. So now I can, I really look at everything from a fresh perspective from the parent point of view of, okay, what are we trying to accomplish?

And what are the options for getting there and what are the, you know, the relative risks and advantages of each one and let's figure it out and they take the next step to figure it out along the way. So, you know, the question was like, how can I find such people? And I heard about this course, and that's totally that led, that led to a B.

And I grew up afterwards. And another networking group, which is where we've got some additional clients. And then, you know, over time, at some point I was actually connected to a member of Knesset at that's like a, you know, that's the, the parliament, a relative is I was hired, was going to meet somebody about one of the members of Tessa, working on a certain legal project and they had to come along.

It took me a long. And I, for six months, I hounded that, that same member concept for a meeting of my own, his, so eventually I met with him and he, he gave me a book. It was the Dunham Brad street book of yeah, the largest companies in Israel, the thousand largest companies. Now the thousand largest companies in Israel, a lot smaller than, I don't know, let's say the United States.

but, you know, there are at the time that there may be $10 billion companies, but I'm not sure. I don't, I don't know what, what it is today, but, and you know, and, and then he's like, look, go look through this book. And if there's anybody in here that you want an introduction to just, you know, let me know, I'll make an introduction and.

Looking back. I'm not really sure what he saw in me that made him willing to do that. And he'll flip to some of the P you know, the CEOs of the largest companies like, you know, I know I have him, I know him. And like, let me know if you want introduction. And I was thinking, I don't even know what I'd say to these people.

I don't know what a little bit too big for what I needed, but, but then I used that book, which I eventually returned to him, but I used that book as a way of finding. Companies are in between 10 and $150 million in sales. And I started cold calling them and I created a CEO peer advisory group  For those CEOs.

And that was a, that became, that, that was, you know, that was a great experience for me. let led to some strategy projects and similar. it led to some paying members. that was something I, I worked on for several years, but ultimately I left it when I realized I was, I was working too hard for, for too long for now.

 I, you know, and that was also coming in closer to the point of transition where I started to realize what I, you know, what I had missed out, like what I'd missed, what I was doing wrong. And it was within a, I don't remember exactly. Yeah. I don't remember what years, months dates. Exactly. But within a couple of years, I'd hold my popup, pulled myself together and shifted to focus outside using the internet to reach people.

Anke: Yeah. But so what I'm hearing and, and it's. You know, very congruent with my experience, all of our, you know, how we got in touch. Like you knew right from the beginning that the goal is in relationships with other people, didn't, you, you didn't seem to have gone through the tool of let's just find a funnel that does it all for me.

Dov: No, I, I, well, I had that came later. I had those detours because, you know, I, I always tend to. No, I, I think, I'm guilty of this and I think most people are guilty of this. I tend to underestimate myself. There are some people who overestimate themselves, you know, they're so confident. So certain, I have the, you know, I've got self doubt and question myself too much.

And I. No. So I definitely went through a number of years where this funnel that I have some kinds of funnels in place. We certainly do. I've dabbled with Facebook ads, probably on three separate occasions. Yeah. And enough to understand what it is enough to understand that if I want to a master at it's going to be a full time thing, and I don't want to do that full time enough to understand that if I want to hire people to do it for me, I'm probably gonna burn through tens of thousands of dollars finding the right people that I could actually trust to get the results.

Cause they're, most people are not that much better than I will. I will be, and I'm not particularly good at it. so,  and that's also from conversations with many people and also from understanding that, that they changed their algorithms on them, you know, anytime they want and, and suddenly what worked doesn't work.

I have a friend who was spending. I think, you know, mid, mid six figures a year on Facebook ads and suddenly it shifted on a stop working. And then he spent about $600,000 over the next year, trying to get it to come back, working with three different agencies. Nobody can get it to come back and eventually get to.

You just completely have to change what he does. Fortunately, I think, I think he figured something out, but not the Facebook ads more with joint ventures along the lines of what I eventually was doing or not eventually I was doing that from pretty much from the beginning. So,  and relationships and that's, but the relationship definitely has become the focus.

You know, I think of what is it that we do? I help good consultants get ideal clients consistently. Through leveraging relationships by becoming what I think of as the, under the radar leader in their industry. Most people never heard of me, but this is a really good chance. They've heard of some of the many people and a network that I lead now.

Quite a number of them are much more well known. And that's fine with me when, you know, cause there are certain things that they come to me for. You know, in, in, in, you know, and I'm, I'm not, I don't need to be the big face. You know, the, the face, the celebrity type, most people are not built for that. It's not our personality and who we want to be.

And over the years, I've come to understand through yes, going off and trying this and trying that. And I've, I've always felt that it's important that I've test different things to understand, to be able to, you know, to help clients. Understanding what they actually may want. And don't want some people, Facebook ads is perfect for him.

It's still perfect for them. but more often than not, it's the various things people are doing. It's a, it's a distraction. And by having dabbled in a number of them, it's, you know, I can sometimes help people figure out what's best for them, but my focus has narrowed over the last couple of years, especially the last few months.

I I got, I, purchased the domain profitable relationships.com going forward will be the branding more under profitable relationships company. Very much about something that, that you know, that I've been doing for years and not properly valuing the uniqueness of what I've been doing. Hmm. And that is really, like I said, what I think of as a building, what I call an alchemy network and using that as a way to come in and under the radar and just read her that's right, the right way.

For most consultants, most professional service people who tend to a new client is worth $5,000 a year, 15,000, 50,000, $150,000 a year, or even more them. The right way to do this. Most of their clients come from preexisting relationships, referrals of one kind or another, but it's not, it's not consistent.

No, they don't know where the next one's going to come from. Don't feel like they have, you know, once they get a client, they have a process for working with their client. They have a system, they know what to do, and what they desperately want is a process for finding those clients and. If they had a process, then they would have more consistency because when there's more consistent activity, there's more consistent results.

So there's actually things, you know, there are actually things that you could do to generate, introductions, more consistently to the right people. you'll, you know, I mean, you know, I was gonna say, you'll never. For someone to buy something at the wrong time. But of course there are times when people do they, they, they pressure somebody.

They, they fold them into making their own decision. I'm not talking about that. No, we don't want someone to buy from us if they're not the right one. And if it's not the right time. So, but, but there is a lot you can do and that's just become our focus at this point.

Anke: Yeah. I mean, it's, it's, it's refreshing.

It's it's you know that no BS thing. I mean, that's why I've been on your list for ages and there was, there was something, and I can't even remember when you said it in what context, but I've quoted that so many times that. When you first start out there is this time when you oversimplify things, you know, when it's like, Oh, it's going to be.

And when I said that, I laughed out loud because boy, that was me. When I started the sewing business, you know, what could possibly go wrong? You know? And then you sort of go into that dip where everything kind of like at the bottom of that, it's like, everything looks way more complicated than it actually is.

And then you've got like the two. Options out either you fold in, you give up or you find that way to what you call true

Dov: simplicity for simplicity right now. Well, that was inspired. That was inspired by a famous quote that I heard from Oliver Wendell Holmes jr. Was a justice in the United States. I believe a justice, so definitely a judge.

and so he. He said that he said, I wouldn't give, I wouldn't give a, I wouldn't give a fig for simplicity on this side of complexity, but I'd give my right hand for simplicity on the far side of complexity. And I was thinking about that and I realized that, yeah, I mean,

We all tend to start what we're doing with the assumption that it will be easier than we think it, then it actually turns out to do it turns out to be, we all assume it's well I'm good at this.

People need it. It shouldn't be too hard. And then we get started and then we very quickly get stuck in the womp of, over complexity. So we go from oversimplified to overcome overcomplicated. We suddenly find there were all these things we need to do that aren't, you know, just to keep our business running that we didn't even realize.

and then we all ended the things that we thought would be easier are difficult. And most people never get out of that swamp. They get bogged down and they get stuck. They sink in this, in the quicksand, and, and they spur for as long as they can manage. And eventually they shut down the business or it's shut down for them.

But those who push forward, those who they get the help that they need. They're committed to the end result. They're committed to really showing up and arriving one day, committed to the journey. They realize that it's not about. The details and the difficulties along the way, it's really, it's about me becoming the one who naturally causes the results that I want.

And for that, you've got to constantly invest in, in your own coaching, your own consulting, your own support. You've got to become the one who naturally causes the results that you want. And eventually, eventually you achieve mastery, not of everything, but a few key things. And that's where you ended up with true simplicity.

And that's what I think Oliver Wendell Holmes jr. Was talking about when he said that I wouldn't give a fig for simplicity on this side of complexity, but I'd give my right hand for simplicity on the far side of complexity. That's true. That's true. Simplicity now real now, Steve jobs who well known as a great simplifier.

Yeah. He talked about that also. And it's that they have to push through the complexity so that the user has the simplest Skagit to use. But inside software, the hardware, most of us look at it and it's complete mess what a mess, but there are people who look at that and they get it because they've achieved that simplicity on the far side of complexity.

It's the same thing with consulting and marketing and selling your expertise in your consulting. And, you know, and I feel like this also ties in with what I said, right? No, I I've noticed that. I, I seem to have the ability to suffer through something for a period of time, sometimes an extended period of time.

There's still the lessons and the lessons, you know, cause that's the simplicity on the far side of that complexity and then articulate it in a way that other people can get it and they can avoid a lot of it and they could start it off a little bit further off, further down the road than they would have otherwise.

Anke: That's so true. I love that. and, and have you ever met anybody who didn't go through those phases?

Dov: I don't think it's possible. I mean, well, I mean, yeah, there are people who never get to the other side.

Anke: That's true. I think. Yeah.

Dov: Yeah. But I think we'll never get to the other side. Yeah, but nobody gets

Anke: without going through the swamp.

And I think that is really where a lot of people, and I think that's also where my biggest pet peeve that whole like, Oh, you know, follow whatever and make six figures in six weeks. You know, they make it look as if you know, it is as simple. And there is that kind of people get surprised by the swamp because there's all these expectations that, Yeah, it's just, it's going to be smooth and it's going to be simple, you know, and I don't know my experience and everybody I've spoken to and, you know, in, in, in my work and in the context of the podcast, like I've not met anybody who hasn't had a period of like, Oh geez.

You know, that kind of, you know, when you're little gets stuck on this

Dov: one forbid. There are, there are cross certain people and personality types that find certain types of things easier. Like there are some people who present marketing and sale selling is isn't is natural for them. They're going to find that marketing and selling is it very, very well could be easy, but for them, other things will be difficult and they will have those experience.

They'll have to make the same journey, but in other areas, the problem is that. That so many of us, let's say 90%, I, you know, maybe 10% of people are, are good. You know, like their personality and values are such that they put themselves forward legitimately, you know, with that celebrity model. But those maybe 10%, 80, 90%, we're not comfortable with that.

And, and, and sometimes you see people kind of putting themselves out there on the internet as like these, and I don't know how, but we can all sense it. We can all sniff it out and here you're just, you're playing. I want to be game. You just want to be like some of those, some of these, these people who are real now, even they even, they will get their followers.

You know why? Because their followers without full awareness, their followers can also sniff out that this guy is a fraud, but they don't want to have to miss my opinion. They don't want to have to do the work. They don't want to have to push through the complexity to simplicity on the far side of complexity.

And they want to believe that this guy somehow figured out a short cut, so they will spend money with them. They will give him money, follow him in hopes that something's gonna right well on them. And they too can have that. But what, what they don't get is that, and this is something that I eventually came to understand there.

First of all, gut, you've got to put in the growth. You've got to put in the pain and the growth. Nobody can do it for you, you know? In order for you to be, to get what you want them to about to learn certain things. But most of the things you need to learn, it's not information that you need to learn. You need to learn the lessons, the insights you understanding that you can only learn through an experience.

So as a coach, as a consultant, sure. There are things that I teach people. There's certain information that I share, but that's not what really makes a difference or really makes a difference for a client of mine. Does that. I'm leading them through a series of architected experiences because it's when they go through their own experiences with some guidance, I can't do it for them because they have to grow.

They're not going to grow. If I do the work any more than I'm going to become a professional basketball player, someone else's shooting a hoops and doing practice. Hmm. It just can't be. And it's the same thing with these less physical skills and ways of thinking. So, you know, I mean, that's just how I see it.

It's a, we got to learn to not look for the shortcuts. We need to look for leverage. Now I think that we're looking for shortcuts. So we're looking to avoid the lessons that we most need to learn, but we actually need to do is say, okay, who can help me learn this lesson in the deepest possible way? of course, fast it's.

We don't want it to draw out any more than the necessary, but with a sense of urgency, not rushing through something is the distinction between the two we know there's rushing. Trying to get something to go faster than it's meant to, and a sense of urgency, which is you're not going to allow things to take longer than the need to, and, you know, and, and, you know, over, I also came, started to allude to this, but as I see it, and I came to see this over time, there are two main ways that, that people become, you know, could thrive as experts, consultants, and so on.

one is what I call the path of the charismatic group. And the other is the path of mastery. And so many people are walking down the path of the charismatic group cause they never heard of the past mastery. All I see is the celebrity girl is saying, you know, You can do what I did on YouTube, what I did.

Anke: Yeah.

Dov: What they, what, what, what the group could never teach though, is, is the personality. If you have a different set of values in it, then personality. If you're not, if their dream is not your dream, if your dream is something else, but you know, and you're not open and honest about it, you will discover what your dream really is.

But you know, not before you end up kind of bruised and bloody from trying to follow someone else's dream. And we have to be really aware and comfortable with these things. We have to be, you know, I see it. It's very much about freeing ourselves to, to just show up everyday and be our best. And just today I was thinking about this.

I was thinking there's a, there's a famous quote, attributed to Churchill, although it's questionable, he ever actually said it. but he said that success is going from failure to failure without loss of enthusiasm.

Anke: That's hilarious. I love it.

Dov: What does that mean? The success is going from failure to failure without loss of enthusiasm.

Well, you know, most people, when things don't work out the way they wanted them to work out, it crushes them. It's disappointing. It's frustrating. And we all feel that from time to time and then that's totally normal. What we can't allow is that it can't allow us to stop us from getting up in the next hour, the next day, you know, and doing our best, the one who's successful.

It's not focused on their success is not about the outcome. Of course they're striving and aiming for particular outcomes, but what matters more is the day to day of, of, of being their best today, success is I woke up and I did my best today. I was who I could be, to the best of my ability if I did, regardless of what the outcome was, because when you do that, you're, you're successful and you're enthusiastic.

So you're successful because you go from failure to failure, failure without loss of enthusiasm, because you're not allowing events that you cannot control to determine how you feel. So that's just a, some reflecting on this way. Yeah.

Anke: That's, that's that's gold. So what's on the horizon for you as far as we can have a horizon, the crazy crazy times when what's, what are your plans?

What you've got.

Dov: We're recording this and in the middle of the coronavirus, or I'd say, you know, I don't know. I don't know if it's early or late. It's hard to say right. March, 2020. So, what's next again? It's quite remarkable.  what is, what's, what's amazing is that. You know, several months back. and I, when I decided that I was going to slowly rebrand under your profitable relationships.com and, and then we have this thing where currently I'm working from home, I usually go out for an audit to an office 10 minutes away.

businesses are way too many are shut down. New economies is gonna, is taking a massive hit. I mean, it's, I don't know what this is all going to lead to. Hopefully it does not last for a long, but interestingly, the approach that I've been teaching people to build an alchemy network, it's all online.

It can have offline elements too, but it's all online. It's all about, you know, building relationships with the right people who either are ready to hire you now, or will soon as soon as things start to climb back because, you know, fundamentally, I don't think that. You know, we're in a bad situation. It's just that we all have to kind of take a step back and our hands are tied for a bit of time, but I don't know that, that, you know, fundamentally, I just think that there's a, there's a strong spirit, you know, around the world, people are able to do things we can never do before.

technology enables our, our kind of our, you know, and it was just me and you to be doing this. Yeah, it's an interview in different countries. It's just amazing. And, and, you know, I would say that that people really need. To, to learn how to build an alchemy network. And, you know, I'll I'll, if I can, I just, we put up a page with a, a small training for free on how people can do that profitable.

Anke: Do you want to say the URL? And I obviously put it in the show notes, but I always quite like it's spoken. And for those who listen to it in the car, I don't actually see the notes.

Dov: Yeah. I'm, I, it is profitable relationships.com forward slash ANCA, a N K E.

Anke: I got my own, my own link.

Dov: Very

Anke: cool. Well, thank you in

Dov: your, in your honor.

And over there, there's a short, very practical, video actually. I think it was two videos. We're just walks through kind of what it's all about a short overview. I think that's a five minute video. And then on the next page, there is a 10 minute training kind of just like, this is what you need to do because we're not talking about rocket science and it's something that people can choose to do on their own, or they can, you know, get some help with it.

they can join my under the radar leaders network or they can do it on their own. And, and that's that's that, but, thanks for sharing that with people.

Anke: That's wonderful. Well, thank you so much for coming. It. There's just so much golden here. Listen, listen to myself a couple of times and, yeah, I'll stay safe and, I'll speak to you soon.

Thanks again for coming.

Dov: Thanks for having me. Bye .